Devil's Gate Music
Related Articles
Thirteen years after his last solo album, Ayreon creator Arjen Anthony Lucassen is back with a new solo release, ‘Songs No One Will Hear’, which is out on 12th September via InsideOutMusic. Arjen joined us for a chat about the album, as well as how final preparations were coming along for the five upcoming ‘Ayreon – 30th Anniversary An Amazing Flight Through Time’ shows in Tilburg, the Netherlands. First, though, there was the small matter of a surprise knock on the door for Arjen at home…
Hello, SIR Arjen Anthony Lucassen. How are you today?
SIR, it is! [laughs]
What is the correct procedure for greeting a “Sir”? Should I have stood up and bowed?!
Yes, you should have bowed! I won’t forgive you on that one. It is too late now. Your chance has gone.
What was it like when you got the news about the knighthood? Was it an official letter that you received?
I did not know. It was a total ambush! It was morning, and I was working in the studio. I was expecting a package, and the doorbell rang, so I answered the door wearing a torn t-shirt and looking awful. I was like, “That’s a weird postman!” as he had this big gold or silver chain around his neck, and then I thought, “Why are all these people around him?…wait, that’s my brother! These are all my friends…why are all these cameras here!” There were maybe 10 or 15 people standing at my door, and I did not get it…I am a recluse, and I know nothing about King’s Day [Koningsdag or King’s Day is a national holiday in the Kingdom of the Netherlands], nothing about Knights…the only knights that I know are the ones that I write about from the Middle Ages. So, he came into the house, the cameras were on me, and he started doing his speech, and I still didn’t get it! [laughs] Me? A knighthood? That’s the last thing that you expect. There were only 7 knighthoods this year, I think, all scientists, and teachers, all important people, so why the hell would they give one to me!
Most of it was arranged by Joost [Joost van den Broek], who is the keyboard player in my projects, and also the production leader of all the Ayreon shows, and he set this up. I remember during the day that I tapped him on the shoulder and said, “I hate you so much, tomorrow I will love you, but today I hate you!” [laughs]
The official statement says: “For his achievements in progressive rock and metal music”, and “His albums are truly unique, and hundreds of thousands of fans have created a unique community around his music. This makes him an ambassador for Dutch rock music”. That’s pretty special, isn’t it?
It is, yes. And the most beautiful thing about it is that all these people arranged it for me. They wrote letters…and that was the part where I got emotional….where I had tears in my eyes. I’m sure that the King doesn’t know about me, but all these people wanting me to have that knighthood…that was amazing.
The look of shock on your face in the pictures is hilarious!
The funny thing about those pictures is that I had that torn t-shirt on, and the gentleman who turned up put my medal onto this torn t-shirt. I said to him, “Please, man, can I put on something nice?!” So they had to wait for me to change my shirt before they could take the pictures! [both pictures from Arjen’s Facebook page – by Lori Linstruth]
Let’s talk about the new album ‘Songs No One Will Hear’, which lands September 12th – actually, on my birthday…
That’s the way we arranged it, just for you!
That means so much! Thank You! With you being so busy with Ayreon and so many other projects, what makes ‘Songs No One Will Hear’ a solo album, rather than, say, a collaborative effort?
Well, the biggest difference between ‘Songs No One Will Hear’ and everything else that you mention is that I sing most of this one. On the last few Ayreon albums, I did not sing at all. Of course, on this album, I have a few guests, I have backing singers, but I would say 80-90% is sung by me. That’s the first big difference; the second is that Ayreon is rock opera, and what does rock opera mean? That it has a shitload of singers! [laughs] I think on one album I had 17 singers, and they each played a part, they are a character in the story, and there is a lot of interaction between them, and that makes it a rock opera. My solo albums are concept albums, so there is still a story and different characters, but they are all portrayed by me. Some people asked me, “Why didn’t you call this an Ayreon album?” and I think that Ayreon fans would have been disappointed because they would have wanted the big names on there, all the guest soloists. Another difference would be that a solo album takes me 6 months – one year, whereas an Ayreon album takes me two years.
When did you start planning ‘Songs No One Will Hear’?
My last Ayreon album – ‘Transitus’ – was in 2020, and since then I have done about 5 side projects and most of them were for other people: an album for Simone Simons [Epica], I did an album for Robert [Robert Soeterboek] called Plan Nine, so I was empty. After Simone’s album, I was in my black hole, I had no inspiration, and I thought to myself that I had done so much for others that I had to be an egomaniac and do something 100% for myself. Don’t have to invite anyone, or think about roles for other people; just go to my studio and let the ideas come. Sing whatever I like, in the morning or in the evening, it doesn’t matter. And that relaxed me a lot! As soon as I decided that it was going to be a solo album, the inspiration started.
The album asks the question: “What would you do if the world was ending in five months?”, and I bet that now that you are doing promo for the album, you are sick of people asking you that very same question!
[laughs] It doesn’t matter! It doesn’t bother me!I suppose nobody would know the answer to that question until they were faced with that prospect?
You wouldn’t know because the world would be a total mess if that happened. Total anarchy! Five months to live? The Police wouldn’t be working, prisons would be opened, and it would be survival of the fittest. I mean, if someone liked my house more than their own, then they would take it. It doesn’t matter who you are; if you are a baker, or the President…
Or a SIR…
Or a SIR, yes [laughs] it wouldn’t matter at all. But you would be better off being a baker than a President, because at least then you could make food! All I know is that this story revolves around Sanctuary Island, which is the place where the asteroid will hit the Earth. There is this dude called Dr. Slumber, who is a character from a previous solo album – and he has a blue bus that will take you directly to Sanctuary Island…and that’s where I would want to be. I would want to be watching the asteroid landing and be like “C’mon, let’s end it with one big bang”, rather than being on the other side of the world and waiting for all the destruction like tsunamis and people fighting. I envision it like this hippy commune on a beach, holding hands, and singing. I would be there!
It would be insane to talk to you about the new album without singling out the collaboration with Floor Jansen on ‘We’ll Never Know’. If ever there were a few minutes that highlight the power of music, then that would be ‘We’ll Never Know’. What was your reaction when you first heard Floor’s vocals on this one?
[laughs] You can imagine! At first, it was all in stages. First, I came up with the song, and then the lyrics. I was like “Whoa, this is heavy!”. I thought the lyrics might be a bit manipulative, you know, trying to make people cry. I thought that the only way that I would get away with it was if Floor would sing it. But she is busy, you know, and hard to reach. So I sent it to her and explained the lyrics, and she loved it…she almost cried when she read the lyrics. So that was my first moment of goosebumps – okay, Floor is going to do it, and she likes the song, and the lyrics. Then, she sang it in her studio at her place, and the whole session was sent to me; I got everything that she sang, which means I got 10 or 15 takes of every line. I opened the files on my computer, and every line was incredible…especially that scream at the end. It was a luxury problem to have! I was like, “Oh, my god! I have so many options here!” Total goosebumps!It will strike a chord with so many people, and if you were to put 10 different people in a room and play them that song, it would spark 10 different memories of lost loved ones.
I know! There have been a lot of reactions like that. A lot of people who have experienced something similar said that they had been carrying a feeling like in the song for say 10 years and never knew how to express it, and the song expressed it for them. And that’s the biggest compliment that anyone can give me. I was afraid that the song would hurt people. I was very afraid of that, and thought, “Am I going too far?” Especially where the song is placed on the album, because, before it, you have the song ‘Shaggathon’! It is obvious what that one is about! So you go from ‘Shaggathon’ into ‘We’ll Never Know’ and I was like “Can I do that?”…but I like contrasts so much, and I don’t want this album to be depressing. I want it to be hopeful…like, what are you going to do when you have 5 months to live? Do it now! Whether the world will end or not! And that is basically the message on the album.
When you create a song like ‘We’ll Never Know’, or for another example, ‘The Day That The World Breaks Down’ from the 2017 Ayreon studio album ‘The Source’, are you aware straight away how special it is? Or is it only when you hear and see other people’s reactions that you realise that you have struck gold?
Every song that I make has to be gold. Every song that I am working on is the most important song in my life. For instance, right now I am working on an idea that I came up with yesterday. I recorded it on my phone…and that song is the most important thing in the world for me. It’s going to be my best song ever. And if I don’t have that feeling about the song that I’m working on…I stop. So to answer your question: I have that feeling with every song. But at some point – especially with ‘We’ll Never Know’ – I had Floor’s vocals and the song was complete. I gathered this “Circle of Trust” – I call it – around me, which is 20 people who go through every stage. They hear the demos, they hear the final songs, the video clips – they hear and see everything first, and they give me their opinions. They are musicians and non-musicians – I can’t be objective, I love everything that I do, because otherwise I wouldn’t do it – so I need them to be objective. I had a ratings system, and they had to rate all the songs, and that was a big help to me. I knew which songs were the favourites, and which ones weren’t, and they became the bonus tracks.
The album is narrated by the ever-wonderful Mike Mills, who has one of the most expressive voices out there. Where did you first encounter Mike?
On YouTube! Every evening for an hour, I watch YouTube and try to discover shit that I don’t know yet! I saw Mike, and he was covering Jethro Tull’s ‘Thick As A Brick’, and I thought, well, this is going to be interesting. If you can do Ian Anderson, with a guitar, while singing…so I watched it and it was perfect! [laughs] I commented something like “Hey, man, that was brilliant! Keep up the good work.” And he knew me! And I didn’t know that he knew me! And on the right-hand side of the page on YouTube, it had all these suggestions about what to watch next, and it had the band Toehider…so I listened to it and I loved it. It was very Queen-like. So I commented on it, not knowing that it was the same guy. So he answered me again, saying, “Hey, that’s me…again!”, so I knew then that I had to work with this guy. So I invited him onto Ayreon. I think that the first thing that we did was ‘The Theory of Everything’ in 2013, and he came to my studio, and he was as good as I thought that he would be. A total genius.
He is firmly a fan’s favourite. He is loving every minute that he is onstage.
He is! And the good thing about Mike is that he can be really serious, too. Which is important for this album because he has to narrate ‘Shaggathon’ as well as ‘We’ll Never Know’. I think that I got away with that contrast because of his narration. He has a very serious side to him, which people don’t often see.
Another firm fan’s favourite from the Ayreon shows would of course be the amazing Irene Janson, who has a large role on ‘Songs No One Will Hear’. Getting her on the album must have been an easy decision to make.
For sure! Oh, yes! I have a limited voice, this little voice. And I’ve got these epic parts that I cannot sing. It had to be a female singer, someone who could sing softly, but also someone who could act…and Irene is a great actress. Her pronunciation is amazing. Her English – for a Dutch person – is perfect. So that was a no-brainer. I contacted her, and she is always so excited! She was like, “Yeah! When do you want me to come over?” She is amazing.
Does the asteroid actually land? Or was it all an Orson Welles ‘War of the Worlds’-like hoax?
When I started this album, it was clear to me that, yes, it was going to end, and the asteroid lands. But it was more about what people would do with that short amount of time left. I watched a lot of asteroid movies to get ideas, and none of them helped at all because they were all about how to avoid the asteroid. Bruce Willis was always the hero at the end! Not in my story! But that’s why the first single from the album was ‘Our Final Song’; I give away the ending; the ending is clear.
You mentioned Joost earlier. How crucial is he to you?
He is crucial with the live shows. He is the man. He arranges everything. I come up with the ideas, and he makes them come true. He is part of that “Circle of Trust” that I mentioned earlier, so I sent him the songs. Obviously, he plays the Hammond; he does some mean Hammond solos. And he masters the album once it is finished. I have 65-year-old ears, man, and they are suffering! So Joost is a big help there as he is younger than me! He is always a big help.
A big help despite being a LUL? Had to Google the translation; it means dick, yeah?
[laughs] That’s it! It comes from a Dutch TV show about these students, and they were constantly saying stuff like “Hey man, you dick!” And it was so funny, so rude, and I didn’t know the show, and Joost gave me some DVDs of it, and that’s how the whole “LUL” thing started.
How are the final preparations for the Ayreon 30th anniversary shows coming along?
They are almost here! It’s scary! But we started planning these shows two years ago. Two years ago, we decided on the songs and musicians, and all the guest singers. For one year now, we have had production meetings every month, and more recently, that has become almost every week. There is a lot to arrange: 15,000 people attending from all over the world; Tilburg turns into Ayreon city again; there will be Ayreon burgers and beer; the cinema screening, and Ayreon flags everywhere. The good thing is that we started planning early.
What will you be like in the run-up to the shows? Will your anxiety ramp up?
Oh, it has already! I’m this recluse, you know, I never go out, I never see people, I never have a holiday, I work 7 days a week. So, to be suddenly amongst all these people is like…AAAAARGGHHH! The nerves are already there, but I mean…I have the best singers in the world on stage…I’ve got fucking Dino Jelusick, man! He is the best singer in the world right now, and I’m going to be singing on the same stage…and I’m not a singer! [laughs]
So many great singers on the bill, Dino, Irene, Mike Mills, to name but three, and then there is Robert Soeterboek, Damian Wilson, Anneke van Giersbergen, Marcela Bovio, Heather Findlay, Maggy Luyten, and Tommy Karevik from Kamelot. Tommy is a star in the making…
When we were recording ‘The Source’, when I got Tommy’s vocals back, I had the same reaction as I had when I got Floor’s back for ‘We’ll Never Know’. He never recorded the vocals with me in my studio, and when I first heard them…I was crying, man. Such a high-level. And such a great guy, as well.
It is a scramble for tickets for the 5 shows. It took real planning, and the powers of deduction meant that when tickets went on sale, the matinee performances would likely be the last to go, so I went straight for them and was lucky enough to get a ticket…
Yeah? Excellent! I have to say…with your Scottish accent, it is funny hearing you say “matinee” because the way that you say it, of course, reminds me of Fish!
Who, of course, played the character of The Highlander on your 1988 album ’Into the Electric Castle – A Space Opera’…
Yes, and he was so messed up with the matinees because he had never done any before. So every time I passed him, he would say [Scottish accent] “Fucking matinees! Fucking, fucking matinees!” [laughs]
Excellent! Have you been given the keys to Tilburg yet? Are you the next mayor of Tilburg, or is being a SIR enough?
[laughs] Maybe that is the next step, but I sure hope that nobody surprises me again because I hardly survived the knighthood!
‘Songs No One Will Hear’ is available September 12th via InsideOutMusic, pre-order HERE.
Follow Arjen on social media, HERE.
Interview – Dave
All images – credit Lori Linstruth
